As regular readers will know, I have no patience with TERFs – Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists. I had my very own “situation” a few weeks ago – and then had my say on Dame Jenni Murray’s despicable comments about trans people in a national newspaper. I decided to investigate these TERFs further. And guess what – they’re massive on Mumsnet.
A few weeks ago, I told a friend about my trans thing – and it all went horribly wrong. I won’t go into detail but it involved her telling me her strong views on transwomen in “women-only spaces” and how transwomen couldn’t be “real” women because they hadn’t menstruated. Huh.
After writing a blog piece on the meeting – and my views on TERFs – my visitor stats went mental as hundreds of people flooded in over that weekend, seemingly referred by Facebook.
Sticking up two fingers to TERFs
I have very strong suspicions that they were referred from a Mumsnet group – the person I told is a big fan.
And let me be clear, I have no gripe with Mumsnet. Loads of my friends use it, and they say it’s a godsend when it comes to parenting advice. If you want to know why little Jimmy won’t eat his peas, ask for tips on how to get him to sleep at night or just get some moral support from other mums and dads making up parenting as they go along, it’s brilliant.
What I object to is the Feminist forum. And again, don’t get me wrong – there’s a wealth of brilliant information in there. Recent posts in the Feminist Activism and Feminist Theory sub-forums include these:
- Feminists, what are your views on porn?
- Scrap the Rape Clause petition
- Men in Feminism (and their lack thereof)
- Would women be any better in charge?
Great debates. Brilliant. Bravo Mumsnet! But then you look at the Feminist Chat sub-forum and things take a turn for the worst. This is crawling with TERFs. On the first page alone, there are threads with titles such as:
- Why I became an evil TERF
- Gender Critical Reference Thread
- I’m Jenni Murray
- Tori Amos, confirmed TERF
- Being called a bigot and transphobe – my response
- Misgendered trans people doth protest too much
And there are many, many more.
I don’t want to dwell on the vile, hate-filled content of the transphobic TERF threads, but several dwell on reported crimes committed by trans people. Yes, some trans people are criminals – so are some cis people. Get real, ladies! You can’t label all trans people sex offenders or whatever just because a tiny minority of them have committed a crime. You might as well label all cis men rapists. Mind you…
Then there’s stuff like this…
I agree that those in possession of a penis shouldn’t be allowed access to female spaces….in the meantime, whilst those who are transitioning but still are pre op, should be offered a different space…another toilet, another changing room.
Why?! They just want to have a bloody wee! Behind a locked cubicle door!
But they self identify, so we all have to walk on eggshells around them.
No you don’t – just don’t be nasty to them. They just want the same rights as you. I assume you self-identify as a woman, too?
If a man is dressing as a woman but has no plans to have a sex change then he is not a transwoman but a crossdresser surely. Or even a drag queen.
No, loads of transwomen don’t want surgery “down there” and are perfectly happy with the effects of HRT alone. What’s between their legs is none of your business.
And so on, and on, and on, and on. It’s like turning the clock back 30 years when gay, lesbian and bisexual were fair game for being called freaks. Well, we’re LGBT, and we’re not going to stand for it.
Mumsnet seems to be full of TERFs talking about the “trans agenda”, but the only agenda trans people really have is that they want to be treated like any other human being – with the same rights, and without getting their head kicked in or verbal abuse every time they walk down the street just for being different.
Reading between the lines, it seems many of these TERFs have serious anger issues, and that some of these stem from bad experiences with men – cisgender MEN.
Now don’t get me wrong – men can be absolute twats. Compared to women, they drive like twats, they have bigger egos, they can treat women like dirt, they’re harder to talk to, they’re more socially inept, they smell, yadda, yadda, yadda, we know. As a non-binary person, I identify far more closely with women than men.
But TERFs have got to stop putting transwomen in the same bracket as cis men – because they ain’t the same thing. Transwomen are women – just like you. It’s just that you were lucky enough to be born with the right body, whereas they have to fight tooth and nail to change theirs – that’s if they come through all the bullying and suicide attempts.
The vast majority of transwomen on the web – especially Twitter – are staunch feminists. They post messages of feminist support all the time, they go on marches, they do whatever they can to help women.
But unlike the TERF brigade, they don’t hit out at one small sector of the sisterhood just because they’re different.
So let me get this straight… you want this fella to use the ladies’ loos because he was born with a vagina?
Women-only spaces? OK, this guy was assigned female at birth. He had a vagina, a womb, ovaries, the lot. To be honest, I’ve no idea what’s down below now. I don’t care.
Do you really want him in the ladies’? Because that’s what Donald Trump and his crony lawmakers in the States want. So what’s the difference between what they want and what you want? If I’ve got that wrong, comment box is below!
TERFs need to realise that transgender people aren’t going to go away. We’ve been around as long as humanity – and we’re just beginning to get braver and stronger. That’s why referrals to gender clinics have mushroomed in the last couple of years. You can hate us all you want – though we’d rather you didn’t – but we’ll just shout even louder.
So instead of transferring your hatred of cis men on to transwomen, why not educate yourselves, and you’ll see that trans people are some of the warmest, kindest, sweetest people you could ever meet. They don’t want to attack you – they just want to be accepted. Have you ever met a trans person, ever spoken to one? No?
Maybe you should. Then you’d see that they’re not two-headed monsters. They just prefer to express themselves in a more feminine way, er, because they’re women. And we see bollocks-for-brains men in just the same light that you do. Oh, and when we take estrogen, it kills our sex drive… so go figure.
You can virtually forget libido when you’re taking estrogen pills
I’ve spent the past year coming out to my friends – two or three male but maybe a couple of dozen female. Apart from one, this couldn’t have gone better. I’ve been accepted unconditionally by my girl friends. They’ve wanted to know the whole back story, which pronouns to use, everything. We’ve even done stuff like clothes shopping and makeup parties. It’s been beautiful.
Some of those women are staunch feminists – some less so. But they’re all feminists to one degree or another. But not one of them is a TERF. I know that, when in my finery, I could walk into the ladies’ room with any one of them on my arm, and be proud to walk by their side.
I also know that some of them have had their eyes opened about trans issues – some still have loads to learn. But that doesn’t mean they’ve become mean, nasty, vindictive TERFs just because they’re not as informed as other people. They’ve just asked lots of questions and opened books.
Jenni Murray claimed transwomen could never be “real women” a couple of weeks ago in the Sunday Telegraph. It’s old news now – you all know her unreasonable reasoning.
To me, being “a real woman” has nothing to do with genitalia or whether or not you’ve had a period or a child. You know you’re a woman – or transfeminine non-binary, like me – because you feel it in your heart.
“We have more in common than that which divides us.” Quote of the decade. Real women have hearts which are pure and full of love for other people. Their hearts and their minds are open – not closed to minorities just because they’re different, because they don’t want them to join their special club.
And that’s why the Mumsnet TERFs aren’t real women – just angry, bitter and twisted trolls who should address their own anger and issues instead of slagging off other people like teenage keyboard warriors.
Where on earth did I say women should ask permission to speak? Please don’t put words in my mouth. My only gripe is with those who are transphobic – and I’m beginning to realise that there many more of these people than I previously thought. I’ve never said cis women face inequality – of course they do. And I despise misogyny as much as transphobia.
I have no idea what you’re talking about. Why on earth would I have a problem with women talking to each other? My gripe is with transphobia. It’s up there with homophobia. It’s hate speech and shouldn’t be allowed.
I am not a misogynist – I despise them. And nowhere did I suggest that women can’t have debate without permission. Where on earth did you get that idea? I’ve deleted the comments because you sound threatening. Also, I’m not male. Sorry if that upsets you. Now please stop with the hate mail.
TERF to me means trans exclusionary radical feminist. I take exception to exclusion of trans people. It’s hatred. I’ve no idea where you’ve got the rest of your ideas from, but I’m afraid you are seriously misguided. I adore women – I don’t hate them or want to control them. And I can’t stand men who do. I’m a feminist and proud to be so – I just stand up for all women, not just cis women. I hope that makes my position clear.
I’ve tried to explain myself, but you clearly don’t want to listen. Now please go away and don’t write again. I won’t reply to any further rantings from you.
Just to clarify, I despise all violence against women – and think men who attack women should be jailed and the key thrown away. You’ve got me wrong, sister! And with that, I bid you goodnight. x
Lisa, I promise I shall Google the TERF word tomorrow. I also promise that I have never heard it used in that context before – but I’ve seen it used in an anti-trans context hundreds of times. I’ll read up on it tomorrow, though, as I say. And I do get to say I’m not a misogynist – because I’m not a misogynist. Believe me, I’ve had plenty of arguments with men who are in the past. Now get some sleep! :o) Night night. x
“They just prefer to express themselves in a more feminine way, er, because they’re women.”
“We’ve even done stuff like clothes shopping and makeup parties. ”
“when in my finery”
This is the endless, ignorant sexism of the “trans” sub-culture to which self-respecting, honest, feminist women strenuously object!
Being a woman IS NOT about “feminine expression” or “shopping and makeup parties:” or “finery”. Being a woman = “adult FEMALE human being”. The end. She can be super butch, she can be super femme, she can be gender neutral, she can be ANYTHING AT ALL. She’s still a woman because she’s an “adult FEMALE human being”. Every female infant who is lucky enough to live to adulthood is an “adult FEMALE human being”. That’s all it takes and that is the only way to become a woman.
We are not outfits. We are not hairstyles. We are not things you can buy from the store, lotions or potions, make-up or any other trapping of “feminine” in patriarchal cultures. We are biological women – and you are not. You be you. Wear “finery” as much as you want. Just STOP calling yourself what you are not. It’s infuriating, appropriative and morally wrong to falsely claim membership in a oppressed minority. It’s wrong when Rachel Dolezal does it and it’s wrong when you do it, too.
…writes John.
Can I just ask you about a couple of the points you made here?
It’s just that you were lucky enough to be born with the right body, whereas they have to fight tooth and nail to change theirs
No, loads of transwomen don’t want surgery “down there” and are perfectly happy with the effects of HRT alone. What’s between their legs is none of your business.
You talk about transpeople ‘fighting tooth and nail’ to change their body, but also state that many transwomen don’t want ‘surgery “down there” ‘, by which I take it you mean they wish to retain their penis. This is what I don’t get. I don’t understand why they retain their penis, an absolute identifier of maleness. It’s what makes me wonder if they’re just cis men trying on being a transwoman temporarily. They’re leaving the way open to being cis men again later.
I don’t understand this, and I would like to understand it.
Hi Janice, while most tranwomen I know want to go through/have gone through surgery to create a vagina and vulva, some are just happy to take HRT. Some have an aversion to surgery altogether, while, for some, their level of gender dysphoria might not be that strong that they feel they have to have surgery. Also, it’s an incredibly invasive procedure and involves daily dilating for months on end afterwards. And although a penis is obviously “male”, the HRT makes it useless – erections are hard to achive, as it were, and orgasm becomes virtually impossible. The lack of testosterone also cuts libido to next to nothing. Hope this helps a little. x
PS Forgot to say – you don’t try being a transwoman temporarily – you’re either trans or you’re not. Taking HRT causes irreversible effects, such as infertility and breast growth.
Ooooh, getting quite a bit of traffic and even a couple of comments on this very old post from the TERFs today. Keep on sending them, “ladies”. I’ll just keep on deleting them unread. Good luck with the anger management. xxx
Sorry to see this happened to you. TERFS are organized bullies and they are known for this sort of comment mobbing behavior against anyone who openly disagrees with them.
Trust me that most people who accidentally interact with them will be left with a bad impression and your last sentence sums their childish vindictiveness up to a T. Take care.
Thanks Layla. It all got even more mad after I wrote that post. Posie Parker convinced my fiancee to dump me – and then bragged about it while slagging me off in the Houses of Parliament! Will all be in the book. I stay well away from the TERFs these days, and am far happier for doing so. xxx
Well, this old thread is getting plenty of traffic from the Mummsy TERFs again today. Get a life, ladies, and stop judging other people. Being transphobic is just as bad as being homophobic or racist. You should be ashamed of yourselves (but I know you won’t be). Sad, bitter, twisted bigots.
By the way, if any of my more sensible readers wants to take them to task, they can do so here: https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3078735-So-twitter-is-up-in-arms-about-transphobia-Do-you-find-this-offensive?msgid=73168021
Me? I wouldn’t give such vile bigots the time of day.
Honestly the people on mumsnet don’t seem to be very decent people in general. I saw one TERF discussion that sidetracked into the hoops that disabled people have to go through. They seem to be very entitled self absorbed people with not a lot of morals.
I have a couple of trans friends myself they honestly are the kindest most compassionate people I know.
I dont want to invade their “wimmin only” safe spaces. I dont want to play their sports. I am transitioning Nu-Girl and married to a Genetic Girl. I dont want to call myself a lesbian. I dont want any part of their world. I just want to keep taking my hormones and get my surgery then my wife and I just want to live our lives as two girls together not bothering anyone else. But sometimes when we are shopping – I might need a wee.
There are two types of human being on this planet. Just two. Type one wants everybody to get along with their own life while being left alone to do the same. Generally they judge people by what they give rather than take. Type two hates and wishes harm to some degree on others but expects to be allowed to do this while denying others the right.
The flaw here is that type two aren’t really human, they’re predators on their own species. Every other predator has the humanity to expect what they dish out.
Still let’s have these TERFs (backed by big religion in the US) set equality back to the 1700s, what’s next? Slavery? The local Lord having the right to any virgin he wishes? Next thing they’ll be expecting us to believe that after a life of being treated badly we’ll be transported to a ‘special place’ where everything will be great.
Oooooh, you wouldn’t mean that nice Caroline Farrow and her ilk, would you?! Great post, Natasha, thank you. xxx
You shouldn’t be rude towards all cis men either. Some women can be bad drivers and some men can be good drivers. It’s why insurance companies had to scrap that sexist policy of charging men more for car insurance years ago. I’ve had some great conversations with men and women, and some awkward conversations with men and women as well. Some women treat their boyfriends or husbands like shit as well. Most men and women aren’t socially inept either, but some men and women can be shy (that’s the more politically correct way of saying it). Did you ever think that maybe these ‘socially inept’ men could be on the autistic spectrum, suffer from anxiety, or depression?